When I talk to artists making the transition from underground roots to more visible footing or a more populist sound, I like to ask them about the evolution of their relationship to mainstream culture. This is because I have only really had any kind of personal relationship to mainstream culture in maybe the last four years of my life, when I started to reintroduce myself to the idea of listening to music that is on the radio for purposes other than forcing myself out of bed in the morning. In the grand scheme of things, I choose to listen to a very small percentage of mainstream radio pop, but last weekend it was super present: I saw Lorde on Friday at a 9,000-capacity venue in Philadelphia, and Skrillex on Saturday at MoMA PS1. They are both massive fixtures in celebrity culture whose audiences, in different ways, use their fandom as a badge of widely accepted “weirdness”—Lorde’s black lipstick-clad convention of primarily teen girls shouting back that Broken Social Scene reference, Skrillex’s “freak” fans flailing Alien-emoji posters while starting “circle pits” around the beat drop. So that I remember, I want to write down that the former show left me feeling optimistic for the future of music culture—Lorde is a good role model—while the second left me feeling a strange combination of thrill and cynicism. I am not sure exactly which feeling I prefer.